USPS: We Don’t Care; We Don’t Have To
Last Monday, January 11, I mailed off my estimated tax payments to California’s state government (an agency called the Franchise Tax Board) and the federal government (IRS). Both, but especially the check to the IRS, were for large amounts.
At about 10 a.m., I put them in a mail box close to my office in downtown Monterey. The sticker on the box says that pick up is at 12 noon.
At about 2:20 p.m. I received a call from a man at a nearby men’s club. He explained that he had received my letter to the Franchise Tax Board in that day’s mail. He had used my return address to track down my phone number. I thanked him profusely, rushed over to the club, and picked up the letter. My concern, of course, was about what happened to the check to the IRS. Was it badly misplaced also? And if it was, would the person who received it be as responsible and as resourceful as this nice man?
I walked from there to the downtown post office. When it was my turn, the woman I talked to said she would get the postmaster. I waited about 10 minutes until he came to the front. I started to explain the situation. My first surprise was that he told me that the mail from that box hadn’t been picked up yet. I was surprised because I was showing him the letter that I had put in that box. How did he think I got it? When I finally got him to listen and understand, I told him my bigger concern: was the IRS check similarly misplaced?
He answered that he didn’t know and couldn’t know at this point. Then he told me a shocking number. He said that the postal service loses about 2 percent of the mail. Even though I had my mask on, I think he saw my eyes widen.
“Two percent?” I said, “that’s terrible.”
“No, it’s not,” he answered. “We have billions of pieces per day.” (I think he overestimated by at least an order of magnitude, but that doesn’t matter for these purposes.)
“Two percent is a large number,” I answered. “FedEx doesn’t lose 2 percent of its shipments.”
“You can’t mail something with FedEx,” he said.
“Yes, you can,” I replied, “You can put a letter in a FedEx envelope.”
“Then use FedEx,” he answered.
“Meanwhile,” I said, “I’ve got this problem that I did use USPS and I want to make sure my check to the IRS will be delivered.”
“We can’t cross that bridge until we come to it,” he said.
I didn’t understand what that meant in this context, so I asked, “What’s that bridge look like? How would you know we’ve come to it?”
“We would know when the IRS contacts you and says they didn’t get the check.”
“I’m pretty sure they don’t get in touch when that happens,” I replied. “I won’t know until April when I file my taxes and they tell me I owe a big amount rather than sending me my usual small refund. They would also charge me interest and a penalty.”
“So that’s how we would know,” he said.
(I’ve since realized that if I don’t see that the check has cleared by, say, January 22, then it was lost. It’s not clear what I would do. Would I call the IRS? Good luck with that. Would I put a stop payment on the check and send another one? I’m nervous about putting a stop payment on a check to the IRS.)
One of the interesting things about the interaction, which shouldn’t have been surprising, is how little this guy seemed to care and how blasé he was about a 2% loss in mail.
As I say, though, incentives matter. And the USPS’s incentive to deliver all the mail is very low.
READER COMMENTS
Jon Murphy
Jan 18 2021 at 7:38pm
It’s the same attitude we saw the other day with your “let them eat food stamps” post.
Dan
Jan 18 2021 at 7:45pm
Given the apparent competence of the employee, I wouldn’t necessarily trust the 2% figure. It’s probably just something he heard one time, and he doesn’t understand where the number came from or what it would mean if it’s true (hence his lack of caring).
I did some googling and didn’t find a definitive answer (partly because the USPS may not know how much mail they lose because if they had kept track of it to count it, then they probably wouldn’t have lost it). But even if 2% is accurate, it probably doesn’t necessarily mean that the USPS screws up 2% of all letters. Rather, a lot of that would probably include letters that are undeliverable for some reason (like a wrong or missing address), don’t have postage, go to people who’ve moved, and stuff like that, in addition to what you and I would think of as “lost mail:” stuff that’s lost from accidents, theft, stochastic bad luck (like getting messed up in a sorting machine), and farcical incompetence (as in your story).
So, I wouldn’t put too much stock in this goofy dude. Sorry about your disconcerting experience, though! I hope your check clears soon, because yeah – that sounds dicey.
David F
Jan 18 2021 at 8:05pm
I guess I missed the shocking part.
JFA
Jan 19 2021 at 7:22am
That he’s using mail and not paying online. Sorry, David Henderson. Had to rib you a little for that.
Mark Brady
Jan 18 2021 at 8:23pm
I always mail letters to the IRS and the California Franchise Tax Board from the local post office and obtain a certificate of posting. I’m surprised you don’t.
Dylan
Jan 18 2021 at 8:56pm
Over the last decade or so, my wife has shipped quite a lot with USPS. She’s there 3 times a week on average. There’s a bunch to not like about the experience, the lines are long and move slowly and customer service isn’t always the best (although most of the workers are friendlier than I’d expect from working in that kind of environment). But there’s two things that are hard to complain about:
They’ve rarely ever lost a package we’ve sent, like less than 1 a year out of something like 300-400 packages sent.
They are much, much cheaper than the competition. It costs my wife less than $2 to send most of her packages, and only adds another $2 or so to bump it up to Priority Mail. The same level of service from FedEx or UPS is closer to $20.
As someone on the receiving end, we’ve got far worse service from FedEx than we do from USPS. I’ve been told that FedEx drivers are highly incentivized by the number of packages they deliver a day (which matches my anecdotal observation that they always seem to be driving very fast). It’s a great illustration of be careful what you incentivize however because, they are in such a hurry, that they don’t want to wait around long enough (I live in a big apartment building) for me to come down and sign for a package. So, most times they don’t even buzz, and I just find a “attempted delivery” note. A couple of days ago they left a package outside on a busy sidewalk and it was pure luck that I found it. More often, the packages just go missing completely or are sent back to the sender as being undeliverable.
raja_r
Jan 21 2021 at 8:03am
Dylan,
Fedex and UPS are prohibited by law to undercut usps pricing or deliver non-urgent mail.
Josh S
Jan 18 2021 at 9:05pm
Lest you think this problem is limited to government organizations, I have two FedEx horror stories. First, when in college I had to mail a tax form to a business partner and it had to be there in two days. I paid something like $25 (not insignificant to a poor college student) to have the form overnighted. However, it did not arrive until a week later. “It happens sometimes” was their excuse, and via some legal loophole they didn’t reimburse me nor apologize.
A second time when moving across country I mailed a bunch of stuff via FedEx. They ended up breaking hundreds of dollars worth of kitchenware, which had been a gift from my sister-in-law and could not be replaced. Despite having paid extra for insurance on the packages, again they found a legal loophole to blame me and avoid paying a refund, let along replacing the damaged materials.
So of course they will never get my business again, but apparently my business and word of mouth aren’t enough incentive to make them care even a little bit. I received zero sympathy from their “customer care” and I am the farthest thing from a difficult customer. I simply wanted them to provide the service I paid for.
Vipul Naik
Jan 19 2021 at 12:30am
I suggest using the Electronic Federal Tax Payment System (EFTPS) for the actual payments, and only using mail for the tax return forms (though you may want to try freefilefillableforms.com where feasible). If the IRS doesn’t get your tax return form they would eventually write to you about it, or you can at some point request a (free) transcript of your taxes which will make clear what they have or don’t have.
As for USPS, it’s probably best to use Priority Mail for any mail where you want to track delivery. It’s a little more expensive but for tax returns it’s probably worth it.
I think it’s also a good idea to include your address and phone number on any mail you send. That can help track down if anything goes wrong (as it did here).
MarkW
Jan 19 2021 at 6:59am
As for USPS, it’s probably best to use Priority Mail for any mail where you want to track delivery. It’s a little more expensive but for tax returns it’s probably worth it.
I’ve been making quarterly estimated tax payments for decades and have never had one go missing en route. Priority mail envelopes are almost $8. I’ve sent over 200 estimated payments (state and federal). Even if one were lost, the penalty and interest would be nowhere near $1600 (not to mention the extra hassle with priority mail). I know this for sure because I did once forget to make the quarterly payments.
Gorgasal
Jan 19 2021 at 1:55am
Honestly, the continuing reliance of the US on mailing physical checks around will never cease to amaze me.
Over here in Germany, every payment happens either by card (issued by your bank as a matter of course, linked directly to your account), or by direct transfer. In 30 years of dealing with banks, I have only ever handled checks in dealing with payments from the US, and it’s always been a major hassle. When I owe the tax authorities, I go online and send off a transfer, which is there the next day. When they owe me something, they transfer to me.
I’m good with American exceptionalism, and I’m fine with not changing a working system, but the US checking system to me does not seem to fulfill the “working” part.
MarkW
Jan 19 2021 at 7:25am
Honestly, the continuing reliance of the US on mailing physical checks around will never cease to amaze me.
You can be a little less amazed — the U.S. doesn’t rely on mailed checks, but it still accepts them. Actually, the dramatic decline in the mailing of monthly bills and payments is one of the things that has caused large and continuing declines in first-class mail volume for the USPS.
As for estimated taxes — you can pay them electronically too (and it’s required for businesses), but you have to go to some hassle to enroll with the IRS, so I’ve never bothered since putting a check in the mail is easy enough. Same thing for income tax returns. My state would like me to file electronically but also insists I pay for the privilege — which I refuse to do, so that one goes in the mail, too. But tax payments are virtually the only checks I write in a year. I can’t remember the last time I received an ordinary bill in the mail or paid it by check.
Dylan
Jan 19 2021 at 7:37am
For estimated taxes, there is the system that you have to enroll in, but you can also do one off payments pretty easily. I just did one after not receiving my PIN for the EFTPS in a timely manner. I remembered the one off payment being a pain, but it was surprisingly easy. Took me less than 2 minutes to do the whole thing.
My state is similarly easy (and does not charge for the privilege thankfully!)
Joe Kristan
Jan 19 2021 at 10:41am
I do taxes for a living. Most of us tell our clients to use certified mail if they are mailing something to the IRS or state authorities that matters. It costs more, but it gives you proof that you mailed the payment or return on time, proof the IRS has always accepted in my experience.
Most preparers prefer e-filing to avoid the kind of delivery failures David is facing. I send all of my personal payments and filings, federal and state, electronically. You can find the payment options at IRS.gov and at the state tax agency website. If you use EFTPS as one commenter suggested, you can queue up your payments in advance.
For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t lose sleep over the check delivery if I were David. Even if they charge estimated tax penalties, they are relatively modest. You might even be able to get them abated, but for the dollars involved it may not worth the time.
JFA
Jan 19 2021 at 7:29am
You can do that in the US, as well. Some people just choose not to.
Dylan
Jan 19 2021 at 7:31am
For the record, it’s pretty darn easy to get by without checks in the U.S. these days as well. In the 3 decades or so I’ve been banking here, I’ve never written a personal check. I’ve occasionally had to get a money order, but even there I think it’s been a decade or so.
Fazal Majid
Jan 19 2021 at 3:48am
Contrary to what the uninformed employee said, USPS is extremely reliable, but for important mailings like these you should use registered or certified mail, which is tracked and gets that extra level of care.
RPLong
Jan 19 2021 at 9:16am
I know you didn’t mean it this way, but your comment made me laugh. “You may confidently use the US Postal Service for all your mailing needs. And for a higher fee, they will actually ensure that your mail arrives at its intended location.”
Dylan
Jan 19 2021 at 9:25am
Of course, that higher fee is still lower than what their competitors charge for similar level of service.
And really, priority mail and certified and other ones with tracking options aren’t so much to insure against USPS problems as it is to protect against things that happen after that. If I’m sending something like an important document that needs to arrive by a certain date, I want to have proof that it made it there by that time in case someone wants to deny receiving it.
robc
Jan 19 2021 at 9:41am
Isn’t that mandated by law?
Due to the Lysander Spooner, they won’t let anyone undersell them. That may not apply to packages, but does to letter delivery.
I worked with some UPS IT people in the past. They said that UPS is a tracking company, not a delivery company. The company emphasis was on knowing exactly where a package was step by step. I haven’t found that service, for any price, from USPS.
Dylan
Jan 19 2021 at 10:32am
Hands down, UPS is better at tracking than both USPS and FedEx. But, you pay for that level of service and it isn’t always needed.
I’m not aware of any legislation that prohibits competitors from undercutting USPS on fees. I thought the only relevant rule was that only USPS is allowed to deliver directly to mailboxes? I checked with my wife, and it is apparently closer to $2.50 now for her to mail her packages, up from $1.93 the last time I did it. It’s almost 10x to ship the same thing with either UPS or FedEx. Hard for me to believe that there is legislation requiring that kind of price premium.
I should have mentioned this above, but there are a ton of small businesses like my wife’s that are not viable without USPS shipping. Shopify, Etsy, and eBay sellers all rely on the cheap shipping options they can get with USPS.
Dylan
Jan 19 2021 at 10:44am
I stand corrected after reading Andre’s link below. Had no idea of the mandated 6x the price of first class postage. Not clear on if that is related to the price difference that my wife sees with her small packages, but it’s in the ballpark. Wow!
Andre
Jan 19 2021 at 7:59am
Two percent probably includes misdelivered mail. That may be highly mail carrier / local sorter dependent. Several times a year we get mail intended for the neighbors, or very rarely, someone who lives nowhere near us.
But something puzzles me – why not use certified mail? That’s what it’s for, tracking and peace of mind. Still probably way cheaper than the alternatives on a price sticker basis.
In a way, you appear to be comparing apples with oranges – after all, FedEx doesn’t provide tracking-free delivery of letters for 55 cents, either.
robc
Jan 19 2021 at 9:43am
Primarily because it is illegal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Letter_Mail_Company
Andre
Jan 19 2021 at 10:05am
Interesting. Looks like the law allows others to deliver letters, but they can’t charge less than USPS so they’re not interested.
Also, after I posted, I realized that what I (also) meant to say was FedEx doesn’t provide its verified service for 55 cents.
They technically could, they just wouldn’t make money at it.
Andre
Jan 19 2021 at 10:09am
Hmm. Unsurprisingly, the USPS site seems to have some contradictory info. But here is the relevant detail:
https://about.usps.com/publications/pub542/pub542_ch3_001.htm#ep1029138
“(39 USC 601(b)(1))
A letter may be carried out of the mails when the amount paid for the private carriage of the letter is at least six times the rate then currently charged for a 1-ounce single-piece First-Class Mail letter.”
robc
Jan 19 2021 at 10:58am
Fun fact I didn’t realize when I started posting…today is Lysander Spooner’s birthday.
Happy coincidence.
Also happy birthday to the Father of the 5 cent stamp!
Alan Goldhammer
Jan 19 2021 at 8:49am
Why use the postal service for paying any bills? I only use on-line payment and have had no issues at all. I pay quarterly estimated taxes to both the state and federal government and get an e-mail confirmation of payment received. On-line accounts are also created automatically so you can check past payments. Utility bills are set to auto-pay and I get notification of amounts 2-3 weeks before they are debited so that I can double check to make sure they are correct. The only checks I write are for the yard care service.
In our area there are too many horror stories about USPS reliability. Even certified and priority mail are subject to problems. I had an order that was supposed to be delivered by priority mail. I checked the tracking number and it said it was delivered when it was not. It didn’t appear on my doorstep until three weeks later.
RPLong
Jan 19 2021 at 9:22am
I remember accompanying my mother to the post office when I was a young boy. I’d watch her and/or the post office staff prepare the envelopes and then slip them into one of two slots, marked “local” and “out-of-town.” I couldn’t see what was on the other side of those slots, but I was fascinated by what I imagined about it.
One day, my elementary school class took a field trip to the post office. They took us through the door on that wall and I was so excited to finally see what the mail slots looked like from the other side!
On the other side was a single large bin. Mail from both slots landed in exactly the same place, that one large bin. When the bin filled up, it was wheeled over to another location, where a person physically sorted the mail by hand.
Adam Ruth
Jan 21 2021 at 1:13pm
I’d bet it started out with two bins but so many people used the wrong slot they had to sort manually anyway.
robc
Jan 19 2021 at 9:49am
I recently needed an old W2 from a former employer. It was postmarked on Dec 10th in Nashville. It arrived on Jan 9th in Charleston, SC.
After the first week, I convinced them to email me a copy against their policy. They whited out my SS, but at least I got it.
I have also had horrible results with informed delivery. You get an email in the morning with images of the mail you should be getting that day. I regularly get it a day or two later, and one time recently, over a week between the image and the arrival.
Alan Goldhammer
Jan 19 2021 at 11:22am
That’s fast delivery compared to the following anecdote. I’m the treasurer of our local Citizen’s Association and collect all the dues payments from our PO Box. In December of 2018, I received an email from one of the members saying that his membership check, mailed in mid-September had not been cashed. The payment was not recorded in either the accounting software or our master membership list and I informed him that perhaps the check was lost in the mail and suggested he use our PayPal account to remit dues. Flash forward to October 2019, a check from the member dated Sept. 20, 2018 was in the PO Box and the postmark on the envelope was right around the same date that he wrote the check. This was lost in the postal service ether for over a year!
Scott Sumner
Jan 19 2021 at 12:10pm
Monday I received a first class letter mailed from Chicago on Dec. 24, 2020.
Hans Rentsch
Jan 19 2021 at 12:40pm
Sounds quite exotic to us here in Switzerland that in the US, to pay taxes, one sends a check by post to the respective authorities!
Mark Brophy
Jan 19 2021 at 12:52pm
I use USPS regularly in my business. Their failure rate is lower than 2%, it’s much lower than 1%. They fail much more often during Christmas season than other times. A failure is a delayed shipment but they almost never lose a package.
Max More
Jan 19 2021 at 12:57pm
I’m baffled as to why David would use the mail, especially the USPS, when online payment is available. Maybe he resents the extra fee. (So do I but I still prefer it).
For the most recent tax year, we sent in our tax payment and, some time later, got a threatening letter saying that we owed then $x thousand dollars and penalties. After a second threatening letter, my wife spend a lot of time on the phone until she found a helpful person who eventually discovered that the IRS got confused because this year the taxes were filed in my wife’s name. Usually, there are filed with me as head of household. Apparently, the IRS is not smart enough to cross-check married individuals. (Married for quarter of a century!). The lady at the IRS, at least, was both nice and helpful.
Robert Bell
Jan 19 2021 at 5:18pm
As long as we’re all telling stories … I mailed a payment to the IRS (I do my taxes electronically, but this was for my late sister and I didn’t want to open another account), using their voucher with the address they printed showing through the envelope window. The Post Office returned it as “Unable to Deliver, No Such Address”. I called the IRS, and they just laughed and said the Post Office does that sometimes. They then suggested I put the original envelope in another envelope and send it to the regional IRS office. They used the original postmark date so no penalties.
Charley Hooper
Jan 19 2021 at 1:28pm
Some years ago my brother and I were living at 2414 Verwood Dr. in San Jose. We would regularly get pieces of mail for someone who lived on another road some blocks away with the same 2414 address. Worried that our mail was going to that other person, my brother confronted our mailman.
Brother: “This other person’s mail was misdelivered to us. If we are getting this other guy’s mail, he might be getting ours.”
Mailman (after studying the misdelivered mail): “The street address is right.” (shrugged and walked away)
David Henderson
Jan 19 2021 at 4:28pm
Good discussion above. Thanks all.
Yes, I will definitely send registered mail next time.
Thanks, Andre, for the detail about USPS price-fixing their competitors.
One last point. About every 3 weeks we get a piece of mail that was supposed to go to our neighbors. I always take it over. No one ever brings mail to us that they got. Is that because they didn’t get it or because they’re not as considerate? I don’t know. A couple of years ago, we actually got someone’s tax refund in our mail. It wasn’t a neighbor. It was someone on the other side of town and there was nothing in common in the address. I went to the person’s house and rang the bell but no one answered. So I took it to the post office. Hopefully they got it.
David Seltzer
Jan 19 2021 at 5:28pm
Talk about an agency problem. He says “Then use Fedex.” What chutzpah. My response would have been, the USPS lost 4.5 billion dollars in 2020. I’ve already paid for your incompetence. The USPS is a classic example of no private sector accountability. If FEDEX lost 70 billion over the last eleven years I hardly suspect they would have survived.
Max More
Jan 19 2021 at 9:21pm
I should add: We quite frequently get mail addressed to someone on a different street. Usually with the same street number, but not always. I look at it and throw it away if it’s bulk commercial mail. If not, and certainly if it’s any kind of package, I always walk or drive to the address and deliver the mail. One maybe a couple of occasions, neighbors have done us the same courtesy.
My other point is this: Yes, the private deliverers sometimes get it wrong too. One big difference — I should note that the vast majority of my experience is UPS deliveries from Amazon — one the one or two occasions when they get it wrong, I receive an email showing “successful delivery” with a photo for proof. On one of those two occasions, I recognized a neighbors front door and walked over and picked it up. The P.O. offers no such service.
Lawrence
Jan 20 2021 at 12:03pm
Let me tell you some stories — two from the inside and one as a “customer” of the USPS.
While in college and before, I worked as a mail carrier in Detroit. One day, I was driving along Windmill Pointe — a beautiful street that borders on Lake St. Clair (430 sq. miles). I saw a new carrier with a confused look on his face — a guy a few years older than me, who was in his mid-20s or so. I knew he’d have trouble finding the mailboxes for the mansions on this street, so I stopped to help. After giving him a few tips, he asked, pointing to Lake St. Clair: “What’s all that water out there?” The man had been born and raised in Detroit — only a few miles from where we were standing. To be that clueless is the definition of USPS “worker.”
One Saturday morning, I finished delivering mail at about 10 a.m — about 5 hours before I had to clock out. A very easy day. Everyone had their mail within two hours of starting my route. When I returned to the USPS station, the foreman said to me: “Larry, you’ve got to stop delivering the mail so quickly. The regular guys are always complaining that their customers tell them that the substitute carrier (me) always delivers their mail earlier than they do. You don’t want to rub these people the wrong way.” In other words, the corporate culture at the USPS was to upbraid those who perform and coddle those who don’t.
Now for my customer story. I’ve lived at my current address for over 5 years — in Grosse Pointe Park, MI. Every week, I get at least a couple of misdelivered letters. Usually my immediate neighbor, sometimes people on other streets or other cities. One day, I was ill, and I had 15 misdelivered letters in my mailbox. That’s right: 15. They were from about four addresses. The carrier was only two houses away, and I called to him, waving the stack of letters. I said: “I can’t deliver these for you today.” He decided to be Sergeant Shultz from the old “Hogan’s Heroes” sitcom. He looked at me and proceeded to ignore me. I said, I’m too sick to fix this for you today, and I threw the stack onto my sidewalk and said, “You need to come and get these.” I went in the house, and a half-hour later, the letters were lying where I put them. I delivered them. That was the last mail delivered to my house for the next 3 weeks. He unilaterally decided NOT to deliver any mail without anyone telling me. When some medication didn’t arrive, I called the station and found out that he had unilaterally stopped payment without informing me — illegal. I was told that he felt “unsafe” around me. I’m 5’6″ and weighed 155 at that time. He weighed at least 220 and was 6’2″. Get the picture. This is the USPS. And it won’t get better.
David Henderson
Jan 20 2021 at 3:44pm
Wow! Amazing. I feel fortunate.
We actually lately have a had a mailman who’s so good that my wife gave him a $20 Christmas tip.
Lawrence
Jan 21 2021 at 10:29am
Yes, the variation is amazing. Each carrier usually had a few streets in my day (one or two for some longer streets), and the next one over could be somebody else. Having a decent carrier is really a plus.
Lawrence
Jan 20 2021 at 12:06pm
David: Sorry to hear about the loss of your tax payment. That can indeed be unnerving. You should also know that when you put a “stop payment” on a check, it usually expires after one year. This will just add to your anxiety unfortunately.
TMC
Jan 20 2021 at 1:46pm
Checks are only good for a year, so if you didn’t post date it, you’re OK
Lawrence
Jan 22 2021 at 1:06pm
Thanks for the info! I didn’t know that checks had a time limit.
David Henderson
Jan 20 2021 at 3:42pm
Good news. The IRS cashed my check. I know it’s strange for a libertarian to celebrate the IRS taking thousands of dollars from him, but I think you understand.
Lawrence
Jan 21 2021 at 10:27am
Well THAT’S a “relief,” which is perhaps a more accurate word to use than “celebrate,” eh?
Comments are closed.